question+with+which+they+have+been+grappling

I created this page so we would have the place for us each to list the questions we have been grappling with. What I found helpful when we used this method previously was for us to write our name at the beginning of our post. I also found it helpful if I was replying to someone's thought I would put it directly below their question/though, oppose to at the bottom of the page so one could follow the flow of thought. Does that make sense? ~ Jill

Brenda- Jill, thanks for creating this page for us. It makes PERFECT sense!

Posted Today 7:17 am Melinda ~ Hello everyone: I'll get this discussion moving- Before you start reading, please note- I don't type well - please excuse the errors. How do you spell check posts?

After reading Ms. Brook's poem, I thought she illustrated, through poetic form, the topics discussed all week: the undeserving poor (her line: And beautiful poor. Perhaps just not too swarthy?), the deficit theory: (her line: Their League is allotting largesse to the Lost.),generational poverty: (her line: Darkness, or dirty light. The soil of centuries.)You can hear Ms. Brook's disdane for this group of women grow through out the poem: descriptions such as: They've never seen such a make-do-ness as /Newspaper rugs before! In this, this "flat",... By the end of the poem, it seems, she is enjoying the "reeducation of the Betterment League.

Any comment?

Sorry I missed you Friday. My son is ill- Lyme disease- high fevers 103.7 - I felt like I needed to be home. Melinda

Brenda- Melinda and Leah, your thoughts about the poem are astounding! I can't hold a candle to either of you in connection with my thoughts about the specifics of the poem. Interpreting the poem could go on forever. The imagery and messages from the poem made me think about how wide the disparities are between the rich and poor in our society. Also, that those who go to "love" the poor in the poem, really show a repulsion for the very people they are supposed to serve.

~Leah (Sorry if this note is posted 3 times in random places. It took me a quite awhile to figure out how to post!) Hi everyone!

I'm glad we get to start by discussing the Brooks poem because I have such a deeply rooted love for poetry. Melinda, your points were all things I underlined in the poem as well. I'll just point out a couple of other lines that I thought were particularly interesting. In lines 3-4 when Brooks writes, ". . .the late light slanting/ in diluted gold bars across the boulevard brag/ of proud, seamed faces with mercy and murder hinting," I thought, upon a second reading, that these gold bars were more symbolic of a prison these women have been kept in. The women have been unable to see the 'real' environment surrounding them because of the rose colored glasses they view the world with. In fact, the poem references this idea later on in the poem as Brooks writes, "But to put their clean, their pretty money, to put/Their money collected from delicate rose-fingers/ Tipped with their hundred flawless rose-nails seems. . ." I thought right away after reading these lines that superficially, these ladies didn't want to literally 'touch' the poor they were said to be helping, but they figuratively didn't want to 'see' the poor, so they 'touched' and 'saw' through not only rose colored glasses, but through rose colored fingers and nails (nicely manicured, I'm sure) as well.

Another additional line that really struck an emotion in me was ". . .better presently to cater/To no more Possibilities, to get/Away. I thought that perhaps my students feel like this at times in their circumstances. Perhaps they are the ones that are not getting catered to because of their skin color, their living arrangements, their lack of money, their, well, everything. This line made me think about how Brooks capitalized the word possibilities, making it a proper noun. I think that's very symbolic.

I would love to hear additional comments about this poem. I feel like I could talk about it all day!

Here's my question: How do I go about sending the messages we learned in class slowly to my students? I know Jill mentioned that just taking 2 units per year could make the transition manageable, but HOW do I even start?

Brenda- Your question is a great one, Leah. How do we start conversations with our students around social justice and equity in our society? A place that I consistently steer my pre-service teachers to look for ideas to begin these conversations, is through the Edchange/Multicultural Pavilion website, founded by Paul. I have not only had my students access activities that they can use in their K-8 classrooms to ignite activity and dialogue with their students in regard to social justice and equity, but I have used many of the activities within my own classroom with my adult learners. The activities make for deep, lengthy dialogue to unfold. I think that there is something for every teacher to consider at this website for both personal and professional use in his or her quest towards action in creating a more equitable world.

I also know that I need to continually educate myself and re-examine my motives and perspectives when teaching my students and living my life. I feel that in order to help others (my students) work towards a more equitable world, I must first hold myself accountable, and continually look at the world through a social justice and equity lense. If I dig deep and continue to work on myself from the inside, I will become transformed and help to grow agents for change in my classroom. It really begins with me.

A question that I have been grappling with is the idea of how communities (especially school communities) define the term, social justice and equity. Could the way communities define this term compromise or downplay its importance? It can mean so many things to so many different people. How should we deal with this issue?

Jill~ Leah, I love that you included in your reflection the piece in the poem about the gold bars, as I too imagined those being of a prision cell and the system of class that is in place to keep people of color in jail. I think if poetry is an area you really enjoy I am guessing you do a great deal of it in the classroom...look at including poems such as the Brook's one....look through the materials you have and create a list of who voice is present and who's is not. When including such poems as the Brook's one the imagery is so clear it leaves the reader (your students) drawing many inferences about what the author is talking about, which provide incredible discussion points. See what the students find in the poem, ask them how this connects to what is going on in our world today, each of these actions are working towards including the messages we spoke about into our rooms.

One question I have been grappling with is how does our role as white educators reinforce the deficit theory. Specifically, while there are many teachers with good intentions that go into the field to "help" "save" "those students"....doesn't that notion in itself create a hierarchery and send the message that there is something wrong with you that needs to be fixed? What are other unintention things we as white educators do each day to perpetuate this in our schools? What are specific talking points and actions that can be used daily to challenge the deficit theory?

Melinda- Jill this was a good question: Just a thought while I was reading; but, when we were talking last week about history and how it is truly built on the backs of everyday people- one action we could take would be to include the words of everyday people- not just the few select stories that make the textbooks. I intend to include the voices of all people when I am teaching literature and grammar. One idea that came to me last week was how easy it would be to include many voices. For example, when I teach sentence structure, I plan to include this sentence- the intention is for the students to analyze it and learn the structure: (from Bouderlands pg. 85) //"We know what it is to live under the hammer blow of dominant norteamericano culture. But more than we count the blows, we count the days the weeks the years the centureis the eons until the white laws and commerce and customs will rot in the deserts they've created, lie bleached."// I could spend days discusisng the ideas behind this sentnece and the construction, the use of commas, etc... The other idea I had was one Leah pointed out yesterday regarding Brook's use of capitalization- thus making certain words Proper Nouns- Boderlands talks about this on page 84. //"We call ourselves mexican-American to signify we are neither Mexican nor American, but more the noun "American" than the adjective "Mexican" (and when copping out)"// This sentnece could bridge my discussion of parts of speech. Is this what you were looking for Jill? How would you answer that question?

How do you spell check this?

Leah~ Thanks for all of the ideas to help me out thus far. I guess Jill's idea about including poetry and discussions is something I am already doing, so the inclusion of social justice has already started. Now that I'm aware of these concepts, though, I can continue in a much more complete sense. Also, Brenda, thanks for the idea of edchange. I've been looking through the website and found a bunch of stuff I can use for different units throughout the year!

Jill's question is such a good one. I started thinking about how many white teachers there are in my building, and the number became too large to keep track of. Then I started thinking about how many non-white teachers there are: 2. Sad. The deficit theory seems to be in place in my building and in most other buildings I've been in. I think, to some extent, there is no way to tell what other things we as white educators do to perpetuate the deficit theory until we see through the eyes of one of those students who needs to be "saved." For instance, sometimes I hear some of my colleagues talking in slang to students ("what up, dawg?", etc.). I am now wondering if this is one way that the deficit theory plays out. It's obvious that the teachers who are speaking this way are trying to "fit in" with students or are trying to be funny. Does this then act as a put-down to those students who actually do use this vocabulary on a daily basis? I suppose the way a teacher dresses could also be seen in this same light. If a teacher dresses in expensive clothing, does that send a message to students other than the teacher just dressing nicely to act as a professional?

David- I wasn't sure this Wiki was going to work but I guess it does. Interesting comments above. The deficit theory conundrum that Jill raises is constantly in play for me. I can't help to draw upon the foundation of numerous religions to explain our need to "save" others. Certainly at the core of Christianity, Buddhism, Islam is this idea of living for something greater than oneself (although the majority of people sign up for a religion for the very opposite reason). I recall a Buddhist story of an aesthetic who upon his wanderings through the woods comes across two starving tiger cubs and her mother. The aesthetic realizing the larger cycle of life makes a decision to give himself as food to the lion cubs and mother, thus "saving" them and sacrificing himself. I think one of the illuminating aspects of last week for me was constantly looking at the result of my actions. This can be pretty dicey sometimes particularly in my discipline area. I receive large grants for students that are underrepresented in the STEM careers. Why? Is it because our government (in this case NSF) really feels ethically and morally compelled to have more minority students in powerful STEM careers or are these grants token sentiments to express that our government is really trying to work toward economic justice and equity. I must constantly check my intentions - why do I spend my time doing this? I think constantly analyzing our intent is important. If that intent includes risk on my part, coming to my student's table on their terms (which means being adaptable), and having a zealous desire to learn about other people with suspended judgment, I feel I am checking myself. This to me is intentionality. It is really difficult though and the majority of the time I fail as I am sure others do also. This is a tough one.

Melinda: I have news to post. It is not a question to grapple but an effect of the grappling. This week I co-created writing prompts with fellow English 9 teachers. We were working on a prompt dealing with the word status. As an example, the group wanted to use a quarterback as an example of a member of a team with status. I interjected on behalf of my Hmoung students that may not have a football background. Their first reaction was "duh, doesn't everyone know what a quarterback is?" I stuck to my new found ideals- The new example in the prompt uses "a leader of a team" has status and not the "quaterback" example. Prior to last week, I would not have thought of the other side!

Paul- Hey, all. Great discussion. I posted a response to the Brooks poem discussion under "Discussion." So I won't address that again here. But I do have a few thoughts to share. Melinda--great example of how you stepped in and named a sort of hidden curriculum and a subtle form of ethnocentrism. The reaction ("duh...") illustrates the social ways in which hegemony is maintained. / David--very powerful reflections. Checking our intentions is difficult sometimes. But what's even harder is considering the implications of our actions, regardless of our intentions. The situation with the STEM grants is interesting. This is a problem in the public sphere today, including public education and non-profit work. In the case of public education, a lack of adequate funding (including that needed to meet NCLB requirements) has pushed more and more schools into looking for grants or entering other kinds of corporate-school partnership. Some of these I think are well-intended. Others are not-so-good covers for corporate influence. So, do we take the money and do the best we can with it? Ah... You raise the best kind of question: the kind that only leads to more questions. / Leah--the "not knowing" the extent of our own deficit ideology is a powerful observation. Even the most "aware" and well-meaning of us struggle constantly to fight back the deficit thinking. I try always to ask myself, "What systemic conditions are in play here?" / Melinda--I love the way you're using a sentence that might engender interesting dialogue for the purpose of learning grammar. This, to me, is an example of how a hidden curriculum can be positive.

Liz Sorry it's taken so long for me to contribute. I have been in back-to-back workshops since we met.

I just started reading essays by bell hooks about class. She says, "Race and gender can be used as screens to deflect attention away from the harsh realities class politics exposes...it is impossible to talk meaningfully about ending racism without talking about class." Any thought about her words? I think it's still important to remember and acknowledge that there is an interlocking of race, gender and class. But who, in the published world is talking about or exploring this?

Is all inequity linked to money and economics?

Liz (again--later date) I am reading bell hooks (for the first time ever, believe it or not!) and here's an excerpt from her book called "where we stand: class matters":

"Socialized by the media to believe that ruling classes are morally better and superior to those without class privilege, they do not feel allegiance to members of their own class or to those whoa re less fortunate. They believe that the wealthy have earned their right to rule. And as a consequence they abandon any political commitment to economic justice or to ethical values that condemn greed and exploitation. While it is true that more than ever before in our nation's history rare individuals of any creed or color can enter the portals of the rich, they cannot maintain this class position an dclass power without betraying the interests of those who are needy. I interviewed one of the richest men in this society and asked him what he liked most about his wealth. He boldly replied what he that what he liked most about his shift from the middle class to the ruling wealthy elite was the power over others it gave to him, that he could make them do things they would ordinarily not do. His candor was unusual. Most ruling class individuals mask their pleasure in domination and exploitation."

Your thoughts? Reactions?

Liz (again) ;-) Man, do I wish I could have you here discussing bell hooks with me--in real life; I will settle for the virtual gathering!! I remember our conversation about putting civil rights issues on the ballot for the population to vote on it and how the popular vote would always support the status quo. bell advocates that we work to create electoral politics "wherein citizens can vote for where we want our tax dollars to go". She claims that citizens would welcome the opportunity to pay their tax dollars for institutional services that redistribute wealth. I have my doubts. What do the rest of you think about this idea? Could it really work?

Here's another interesting thought (it confirmed my own convictions): One cannot be a feminist and conservative; it is a fundamental contradiction. (Which, I think, then one could say one cannot be a person who works to end exploitation and oppression to promote equity and justice and be a conservative.)

p.s. Just this morning I wrote to a representative on the school board where I work expressing my views about how a case was handled this week where a student was harassed by teachers using derogatory comments. I advocated that the teachers suffer personal consequences for their actions and said that if we are to have equity in our district, we must stand for it in every building and classroom. We cannot hold students to account but not teachers. And we must stand for and speak up for all students; we are only as free and respected as the most minor of minorities. I felt it was a risk sending a letter, but because of our conversations and readings I knew I had to do it. A message from an individual on the inside of the organization may have the school board begin to see that their "policy on sexual orientation" is not enough. Thanks for the empowering support!